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D2 - Transmission Gearboxes, diffs, drive shafts.

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  #11  
Old 7th September 2020, 11:51 AM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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I'm going to go back over the documents Ainars posted and also look at the tracks more carefully as I'm not convinced my analysis above is spot on.
However I have taken my F125 apart and am pretty sure the pin/track/wire assignment is as follows:

4-arc section (easy): pins 7, 8, 9, 10 from inside to outside.
The incoming wires correspond exactly, going straight across to the tracks: Blue, Red, Green, Brown.

5-arc section (messy): pins 1, 2, 5, 3, 4 from inside to outside.
The incoming wires in the order they are in the terminal block are:
1 Black, 4 Yellow, 3 Pink, 5 White, 2 Grey.
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
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  #12  
Old 7th September 2020, 12:08 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Pin 2 says "Car in P, N or D".
Pin 3 says "Car in R, N or 4/S".
Pin 4 says "Car in N, D, 4/S or 2".
Pin 5 says "Car in D, 4/S or 3".
So looking at the pictures of mine and MJs F125s, remembering the track order by pin is 1,2,5,3,4 and trying to guesstimate the movements of the contact arm, I reckon:

Track A, pin 1 as noted before is a common supply voltage, presumably +12v.
Track B, pin 2 is indeed PND (with gaps for R and 4/S etc.).
Track C, pin 5 is indeed D, 4/S or 3 with a single contact segment for that.
Track D, pin 3 is indeed R, N or 4/S with gaps for P, D, 3 and 2.
Track E, pin 4 is indeed N, D, 4/S or 2 with gaps for P, R and 3.

There's clearly not a precise correlation between the track sections for the different gears, so I wonder if that's a way of signalling to the TCU that the shifter is moving from one position to another, whatever it does with that information?
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.

Last edited by HPsauce; 7th September 2020 at 01:08 PM.
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  #13  
Old 8th September 2020, 10:20 AM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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For clarification I've labelled this internal picture of the F125 tracks:

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__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
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  #14  
Old 8th September 2020, 12:32 PM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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So it can tell which way the shifter is moving. I thought that was the case but its cool to see it in the drawing
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  #15  
Old 8th September 2020, 01:04 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Well technically of course it can't see which direction, but it can potentially see "interim" positions and so infer direction.
That's assuming the human hand is making "normal" movements and it remembers what the previous position was.
Remember my gear(shifter/selector) position lines are only estimates, I didn't get that information from an F125 switch connected to the cable.

But given the tracks very obviously aren't exactly aligned/delineated around precise locations of each stick position there has to be some logic to it..... doesn't there?

In particular I note that pin 3 will get a signal as the shifter moves out of Park but well before it arrives in Reverse, though that is of course a longer than average travel.
Whereas pin 2 loses the signal only when the shifter is fairly precisely centred in Reverse. I suspect some subtlety of that is related to your problem.
It actually looks like, from a TCU view, it goes P, half-N, R, N, D etc.

Also, in the non-TCU (presumed) group the starter relay gets a very lax allowance on Park but minimal slack on N.
There is even possibly an interim position where you could be in Reverse (or at least have the reversing lights on) and operate the starter given the size of the contacts?

I've also only just realised that the four "relay" contacts run in grooves so can't really go adrift whereas the five TCU ones are not constrained and a slight distortion could have odd results, though they are mounted in pairs.
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.

Last edited by HPsauce; 8th September 2020 at 01:42 PM.
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  #16  
Old 8th September 2020, 02:37 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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So I decided to try and work out the sequence from Park through to 2nd, pins 2,3,4 and 5 using the bits(values) as in post #9:
0000 (0) = Out of range before Park and below 2nd.
1000 (8) = P
1100 (12) = between R and .....
0100 (4) = R
1100 (12) = between R and .....
1110 (14) = N
1010 (10) = between N and D .....
1011 (11) = D
1111 (15) = between D and 4th/S .....
0111 (7) = 4th/S
0011 (3) = between 3rd and .....
0001 (1) = 3rd
0011 (3) = between 3rd and .....
0010 (2) = 2nd

Unused codes:
0101(5), 0110(6), 1001(9), 1101(13).

So when leaving R it doesn't know if it's heading for P or N, but does that matter?
And if leaving 3rd (on a non-S version) it doesn't know if you're heading for 2nd or 4th.
But it does distinguish moving between N and D from between D and 4/S.
And in all cases it can know the stick is moving, though not always which way.

As an observation, I reckon MJs suspect F125 pictured in her Workshop thread, may well have been giving a 1100 code (between R and... N or P) when R was selected (normally 0100).
This could have been due to shorting of the track for pin 2 to its contacts, while still having the reversing lights on. See the first picture in post 267 http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showpost....&postcount=267

And then compare the relevant areas of MJs F125 and my old one and also the contacts on MJs arm, where the "spot" on one of the #2 contacts (left) suggests arcing:
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__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.

Last edited by HPsauce; 8th September 2020 at 08:42 PM.
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  #17  
Old 9th September 2020, 06:12 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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I took the S8 out for a little run today to my younger son's house and back. Only about 6 miles each way but enough to get warmed up even though 40mph is the fastest I can legally do on that route.
But I did do a little test on the "between" positions by moving the shifter very slowly and carefully through the available range (PRNDS) while watching the cluster display.
Not a flicker at any interim position and the display just switched as you'd expect.
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
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  #18  
Old 9th September 2020, 06:31 PM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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So from that can we surmise that mine was getting a completely invalid code from the switch since it displayed nothing? PRNDS was displayed with nothing highlighted with the shifter in R, and would only show R on the display when pushed to just the right spot.
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  #19  
Old 9th September 2020, 07:45 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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That's my best guess now, and one reason why I did the test today.
My surmise above was probably wrong:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
MJs suspect F125 pictured in her Workshop thread, may well have been giving a 1100 code (between R and... N or P) when R was selected (normally 0100).
But remind me how it behaved. I recall you said the reversing light was on (not a surprise, separate circuit) but had it selected Reverse gear, or not until indicated on the display and the TCU commanded the valve body?
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.

Last edited by HPsauce; 9th September 2020 at 08:26 PM.
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  #20  
Old 12th September 2020, 08:51 AM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
But remind me how it behaved. I recall you said the reversing light was on (not a surprise, separate circuit) but had it selected Reverse gear, or not until indicated on the display and the TCU commanded the valve body?
It wouldn't select R unless the shifter was held in between P and R in an extremely precise position (within a mm or two). I think the necessary sprung contact was only making a connection right on the edge of the base contact, so any movement either way and it failed and dropped out of gear. R on the cluster was coincident with it being in gear, which makes sense as the TCU will send it a CAN message.

Having cleaned it up and put it back in, I was checking the shifter alignment yesterday using VCDS. Between P & R and R & N the TCU shows 'Z1' and between N and D it shows 'Z2' so those intermediate contacts definitely tell it something different. Presumably its so it can prepare for what is coming next - it apparently can't tell direction, since it can be put in to Z2 from D, and then put straight back in D, but I guess it uses the Z positions to prepare the gearbox for what may come next.

I didn't get the binary code for Z, but that can probably be worked out from the contacts, or observing VCDS again.
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