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-   -   Manual swap a8L (http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16603)

Fredde 20th February 2022 03:45 PM

Manual swap a8L
 
Hello I am planning on swapping my A8lwb to manual and I am wondering if the 6 speed from A4 b5 Quattro 1.9 tdi would work? The part number starts with 01E but is this some inferior 01E because of it being bolted to a small tdi? Or should this be fine? Reason I want to use the 1.9 gearbox is because I found a complete car for sale for 250 so i would easily make that back selling parts and then have a almost free gearbox and diff combo. Also I am wondering if anyone knows how the lwb driveshaft is extended when compared to a swb shaft.Do I need to get it lengthened and balanced or are there any cheaper options with spacers different driveshaft or something like that. Clutch I read b5 s4 clutch and flywheels would work can anyone confirm this? They are pretty cheap and would like to cut costs as much as possible without compromising quality to much. I also found a guy selling oem d2 manual pedal cluster, front driveshafts, shifter linkage, gearbox mounts and clutch line so those are good.

MikkiJayne 20th February 2022 04:22 PM

Are you sure its a 6-speed? According to the data and my experience the B5 1.9 TDI is a 5-speed 01A. The 01E only came with the 2.5TDI in the B5. It wasn't paired with a 1.9 until the C5 and B6 with the PD130. Also the B5 diff is different to the D2. The ideal donor is the A6 C5 2.5TDI, or possibly a B6 1.9TDI although they have odd output flanges.

I've done a swap in an S8 with a TDI 01E and its ok, not great. 6th is just a bit too high, meaning it does about 1600rpm on the motorway and while that is great for fuel consumption, having to change down to accelerate gets tedious.

You would have to have your propshaft extended since there is no LWB manual from the factory. In theory you could bolt the front of a manual shaft on to the back of a LWB shaft, but manual shafts are extremely rare. Easier to extend it if you can find someone capable of doing it.

S4 stuff does work, but you'll need the spacer between engine and gearbox which will also impact the propshaft. TTV Racing in the UK make a flywheel to take a B5 RS4 clutch which doesn't need the spacer - that's what I've used in the past, and the RS4 clutch is quite cheap. Get the heavy flywheel if you go this route.

The only other thing to bear in mind is that you'll need an S8 manual map in the ECU since there is no manual map for the A8 4.2. This means also swapping to the S8 inlet manifold and throttle body, injectors, and airflow meter so the ECU knows what is going on.

:)

Fredde 20th February 2022 05:14 PM

Here is a link to the same gearbox that is in the car in looking at https://www.bildelsbasen.se/en-se/pb...67/01E300048CX Code is EHW seller says its 6 speed and when looking up the reg on databases they list it as 6 speed so I think this is correct that’s to bad about the diff but sourcing one of those cheap should be no issue. I assume it would have to come from a manual? I have a tig welder and some skills so I think I will be extending the driveshaft myself and having my machine shop balance it. Interesting to hear about the rpm on highway and I think that would be great for my driving style. That TTV flywheel sounds pretty good and I think i will use that any noise issues with the single mass design? Also do you know what they cost? Couldn't see price on on their website. I have the tools to tune most Audi’s and maybe a custom map could be made to make it work? I would prefer not having to swap the s8 stuff over since that sounds expensive but have not looked in to it yet or would it increase engine performance? If I’m gaining hp that would be a different case :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 168846)
Are you sure its a 6-speed? According to the data and my experience the B5 1.9 TDI is a 5-speed 01A. The 01E only came with the 2.5TDI in the B5. It wasn't paired with a 1.9 until the C5 and B6 with the PD130. Also the B5 diff is different to the D2. The ideal donor is the A6 C5 2.5TDI, or possibly a B6 1.9TDI although they have odd output flanges.

I've done a swap in an S8 with a TDI 01E and its ok, not great. 6th is just a bit too high, meaning it does about 1600rpm on the motorway and while that is great for fuel consumption, having to change down to accelerate gets tedious.

You would have to have your propshaft extended since there is no LWB manual from the factory. In theory you could bolt the front of a manual shaft on to the back of a LWB shaft, but manual shafts are extremely rare. Easier to extend it if you can find someone capable of doing it.

S4 stuff does work, but you'll need the spacer between engine and gearbox which will also impact the propshaft. TTV Racing in the UK make a flywheel to take a B5 RS4 clutch which doesn't need the spacer - that's what I've used in the past, and the RS4 clutch is quite cheap. Get the heavy flywheel if you go this route.

The only other thing to bear in mind is that you'll need an S8 manual map in the ECU since there is no manual map for the A8 4.2. This means also swapping to the S8 inlet manifold and throttle body, injectors, and airflow meter so the ECU knows what is going on.

:)


Fredde 20th February 2022 05:18 PM

Actually just looked on eBay and found a 40v s8 inlet manifold with TB injectors included for 280 so not that bad :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 168846)
Are you sure its a 6-speed? According to the data and my experience the B5 1.9 TDI is a 5-speed 01A. The 01E only came with the 2.5TDI in the B5. It wasn't paired with a 1.9 until the C5 and B6 with the PD130. Also the B5 diff is different to the D2. The ideal donor is the A6 C5 2.5TDI, or possibly a B6 1.9TDI although they have odd output flanges.

I've done a swap in an S8 with a TDI 01E and its ok, not great. 6th is just a bit too high, meaning it does about 1600rpm on the motorway and while that is great for fuel consumption, having to change down to accelerate gets tedious.

You would have to have your propshaft extended since there is no LWB manual from the factory. In theory you could bolt the front of a manual shaft on to the back of a LWB shaft, but manual shafts are extremely rare. Easier to extend it if you can find someone capable of doing it.

S4 stuff does work, but you'll need the spacer between engine and gearbox which will also impact the propshaft. TTV Racing in the UK make a flywheel to take a B5 RS4 clutch which doesn't need the spacer - that's what I've used in the past, and the RS4 clutch is quite cheap. Get the heavy flywheel if you go this route.

The only other thing to bear in mind is that you'll need an S8 manual map in the ECU since there is no manual map for the A8 4.2. This means also swapping to the S8 inlet manifold and throttle body, injectors, and airflow meter so the ECU knows what is going on.

:)


Fredde 20th February 2022 06:54 PM

This guy swapped his a8L and just mentions sending his ecu out to be recoded. No parts swapping so seems it may be possible. I asked the tuning file supplier I use and will see if they think they can do it. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...eed-swap/page3

MikkiJayne 20th February 2022 07:46 PM

So, interesting - EHW goes with the PD115 engine in the B5, for one year only, mainland Europe only. I'll get my coat :ROFL:

That has a 4.111 rear diff so from the D2 range you would need an EUU which is the S8 diff, although confusingly the data shows the A8L may also have that so you might not even need a diff.

Also interesting, with a 4.111 diff, that 01E might not be too high geared so may well work nicely. The only downside of it is that it is the small sump version without an external oil cooler. All of the high torque applications of the 01E have a larger sump under the diff and a diff-driven oil pump to an external cooler.

The only A8 4.2 I know of with a manual swap used the S8 bits in order to use the S8 file, but it is entirely possible to make a manual map if one is suffciently skilled. It just tends to be rare and expensive, but if you can do it then go for it +++

The TTV flywheel was 370 last time I bought one. It may be a little more by now. The RS4 clutch is under 200 I think. The S8 original manual flywheel is single mass so the heavy TTV works fine. There's no need for a dual mass.

Fredde 20th February 2022 09:08 PM

Ah i Will check my pr codes what diff i have. Is the small sump no oil cooler thing an issue? Would i have to retrofit something or would it work anyway?
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 168851)
So, interesting - EHW goes with the PD115 engine in the B5, for one year only, mainland Europe only. I'll get my coat :ROFL:

That has a 4.111 rear diff so from the D2 range you would need an EUU which is the S8 diff, although confusingly the data shows the A8L may also have that so you might not even need a diff.

Also interesting, with a 4.111 diff, that 01E might not be too high geared so may well work nicely. The only downside of it is that it is the small sump version without an external oil cooler. All of the high torque applications of the 01E have a larger sump under the diff and a diff-driven oil pump to an external cooler.

The only A8 4.2 I know of with a manual swap used the S8 bits in order to use the S8 file, but it is entirely possible to make a manual map if one is suffciently skilled. It just tends to be rare and expensive, but if you can do it then go for it +++

The TTV flywheel was 370 last time I bought one. It may be a little more by now. The RS4 clutch is under 200 I think. The S8 original manual flywheel is single mass so the heavy TTV works fine. There's no need for a dual mass.


MikkiJayne 20th February 2022 09:21 PM

Well, the factory used an oil cooler everything from the 180hp 2.5TDI and up. Its hard to say whether it would be up to the job without the cooler unless you measure it once it's built. Worst case, you would have to swap to an A6 version with the cooler, but its probably worth a try without.

Fredde 20th February 2022 09:34 PM

Thanks for the info unfortunatley i have the wrong diff so Will be needing that too and i looked up cost for bringing that junk car home and its pretty much the same cost as the car so Will be holding off on buying the car and hope to find one with the propper gearbox and diff that i need Will probably go for a a6 2.5 tdi as you mentioned. Atm planing to do the swap summer 2023 so plenty of time to find the ideal parts :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 168854)
Well, the factory used an oil cooler everything from the 180hp 2.5TDI and up. Its hard to say whether it would be up to the job without the cooler unless you measure it once it's built. Worst case, you would have to swap to an A6 version with the cooler, but its probably worth a try without.


Fredde 20th February 2022 09:37 PM

Would a gearbox and diff from another c5 work? Or is there some reason to only use the tdi stuff? Otherwise i can look att 2.7 2.8 3.0 Cars Adele.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 168854)
Well, the factory used an oil cooler everything from the 180hp 2.5TDI and up. Its hard to say whether it would be up to the job without the cooler unless you measure it once it's built. Worst case, you would have to swap to an A6 version with the cooler, but its probably worth a try without.



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